This is our 150th episode!
Some show stats:
- Novel Marketing started in October 2013.
- 270 Pages of Show Notes
- 52 hours 50 minutes of audio. (Not counting the 5 year plan course, or Patron exclusive episodes)
- 2.2 days of Audio.
- As of recording, the show has 168,876 downloads
- We only have 79 reviews on iTunes.
- Median episode length is 20m 35s
- Assuming every download gets listened to, that is 3,377,520 minutes of you listening to Novel Marketing.
- 56,292 hours
- 2,345 days of listening to Novel Marketing.
- That is 6.4 years of listening.
One of the most frequent questions we get is about how to launch your novel. Specifically, what do you do in the month before and after your book comes out. Mary gets that question a ton as well.
Joining us in teaching the course is bestselling author Mary DeMuth. She has launched over 30 books both fiction and nonfiction and her books are currently in 5 different languages around the world.
This is a 21-day course to help you craft a custom blueprint for launching your next book.
For everyone else who won’t get into the course, we’re going to have a quick overview.
GET READY Day 1 – 5
This week is about laying the foundation for success.
- What marketing is, and how to sell yourself (even if you’re in introvert)
- Find your bigger why.
- How to develop your author brand and present it powerfully to readers
- Look in the mirror
- Look at your readers
- Look through your readers
- Look in your readers mirror
- How to writing best-selling copy
- The key to writing bestselling copy, is to realize that people don’t care about you.
- How to build a rabid tribe of fans
- How create a launch team
- What is a launch team?
- Saturday BONUS session: How to keep consistency in your branding across all platforms
GET SET Day 8 – 12
- Learn the best email strategies for launching your book.
- We will talk about how to build your list if your book launch is a ways out.
- We will talk about how to email around your launch.
- Pro Tip: You can get away with a higher than normal sending rate during your launch.
- How to build a media calendar
- A media calendar is the foundation of a your PR campaign. It is a schedule of all your interviews, promotional activities and advertisements. Everything on one place, planned out ahead of time.
- The best ways to use Amazon
- If you are indie publishing your book, your amazon page is perhaps the most important page about your book on the internet. You want to make sure it is 100% ready for your launch before the launch.
- Amazing Cover
- Amazing Back Cover Copy
- Clearn “Also Boughts”
- Lots of reviews. (This is where your launch team comes in.)
- How to maximize the impact of your website
- Thomas will talk about how to prepare your website for the launch and synthesis all of his website advice into a focused session.
- How to write content that will get you guest slots on leading blogs and websites
- Getting featured on popular blogs and websites can be key to a successful launch. In this session we will talk about how to make that happen.
- Saturday BONUS Video: Create a powerful lead page & other strategies
GO! Day 15 – 19
- Your three best friends the moment you launch
- A good launch is all about leveraging three things:
- The power of GoodReads to sell more books
- GoodReads is popular with the super readers. The kind of readers who will take a risk on a new book from a new author.
- What to do on launch day
- This is the big day, a day you will want to take off of work to work but also celebrate.
- Consider hosting a launch party for your family and friends in real life.
- Consider hosting a launch party online.
- How to nail media interviews
- A bad interview is worse than no interview at all
- You are not the star of the show
- Practice, practice, practice …
Transcript generated algorithmically by Sonix (affiliate link).
This is novel marketing the show for novelists who aren’t necessarily fond of marketing but still want to become the best selling author.
James L Rubart: [00:00:09] Episode one hundred fifty I’m James L. Rubart. You can call me Jim.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:00:13] I’m Thomas Umstattd Jr.
James L Rubart: [00:00:16] And in this episode we’re going to talk to you guys about how to launch your book in a way that will rocket it to success. So Thomas was that metaphor two way over the top or was that OK.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:00:26] That was good. But first real quick this is our 150th [00:00:30] episode. It’s a big accomplishment. We started Novel Marketing back in October of 2013.
James L Rubart: [00:00:38] Wow!
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:00:38] Which seems like a lifetime ago and indie publishing world that’s like two whole generations. Indie Authors. That’s a century. So just some quick show stats for those of you who’ve been with us for a long time. Jim and I have written 270 pages of show notes. Now this isn’t what we’re saying. These are just like little sentences and bullet points on what we’re going [00:01:00] to say. Just the show notes is almost an entire book it’s over a whole book. We published 52 hours and 50 minutes of audio and that’s not counting the five year plan. It’s not counting any of the Patreon exclusive episodes. So if you add that together it’s two point two days of audio.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:01:18] If you started listening to Thomas or we we should we should give a prize to somebody that just listens to all two point two days straight through without sleeping with with out eating with no break. Yeah I do know people who binge the show [00:01:30] in a week or two and they’ll just start at the beginning and they’ll go through to the end. Especially people with really long commutes.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:01:36] So I do know that that is done yes. So please do take naps don’t don’t just straight as of this recording the show has 168,876 downloads and only 79 reviews on iTunes. What’s going on there? It’s really hard. Well part of it is people download multiple upsets but another thing is that people are very [00:02:00] hesitant to write iTunes or use a lot of people don’t know how to do it I don’t know how to get into Apple podcast right.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:02:06] So for if you’re one of the 79 people who went to Apple podcasts and left us a review I really really appreciate you. Real quick a few more stats. The median episode length is 20 minutes and 35 seconds. And if you add than ever downloads and you multiply it by the show length that’s three million minutes of listening 56,000 hours two thousand hundred forty [00:02:30] five days or six point four years of listening.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:02:35] So we have collectively sucked six point four years of your life away. Tell us how do you feel. And it’s for posterity so to be honest and literate you here on iTunes or on Apple podcasts. OK.
James L Rubart: [00:02:49] Love I Love The Princess Bride reference slid in there. THOMAS Very nice. Very subtle.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:02:54] So anyway after 150 episodes one of the big questions we have received [00:03:00] over the years is specifically about launching the book. We talk a lot about marketing the book but specifically launching the book the month before and the month after the book comes out. And like the big question of like how do we build a career that we built the five year course for this is a question that’s too big for an episode is really too big for a series of episodes.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:03:21] We are going to give you an overview. But the cool thing about this is that we are creating a course specifically to help you do this to launch your book into craft [00:03:30] a custom blueprint for your book. And joining us with us to do that is Mary Demuth. Jim who is Mary DeMuth.
James L Rubart: [00:03:36] Well it is you know it’s really cool to have Mary here for the 150 youth episode because she was pretty significant in the start of both of our careers. And so to have you here Mary it’s really cool. Thank you for being here.
Mary DeMuth: [00:03:49] So great to be here. Love you guys. Thanks for having me on.
James L Rubart: [00:03:52] Yeah. Mary have you written like 330 books something like that. Thirty seven I think the number is now so thirty [00:04:00] seven books.
James L Rubart: [00:04:00] And Mary what Mary is the Rule Breaker because you’ve heard us talk about it’s extremely difficult to both do both fiction and nonfiction. And Mary is one of the people that has broken that rule she’s been successful in fiction. Christy Award nominees she’s been successful nonfiction. She’s done that both. But I think the thing I love most about Mary is she is all about the heart of her readers and going after them. She’s a great teacher. She’s a great speaker. But again I’ll just go back to Mary [00:04:30] is somebody that is great about the heart.
Mary DeMuth: [00:04:33] Well that’s very sweet. Thank you so much. That is very true. At least that’s my desire.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:04:37] And it’s very fun to talk about launching a book with somebody who’s launched over 30 books. She’s done it before and then did it again. She’s launched indie books she’s launched traditional books she’s launched fiction and nonfiction. And we want to just really quickly give you an overview of what preparing for the book launch process looks like and doing the book one so [00:05:00] this is in a sense a promotion for the course but we’re also going to be giving away a lot of nuggets in this. So it’s not.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:05:07] Not everyone’s going to be able to do the course and we realized that in fact we’re limiting sign ups is going to end at the end of August. So you have one month to sign up for the course and if you don’t sign up in that time because we’re all going through it together once going through day one together day two together we’re going to have a Facebook group for everyone to go through it. We’ll be asking questions Jim.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:05:28] Mary and I are going to be very involved [00:05:30] and the weeks of the three week course week one is get ready to get set and we three is go. So Jim tell us about week 1.
James L Rubart: [00:05:39] So week one is all about getting ready. And there’s five days so we’re going to have five days of getting ready day one of the course is going to be all about where marketing is and how do you sell yourself because ultimately you are the brand. Your book is not the brand you are the brand. And so how do you promote yourself. How do you figure out who you are how to find your bigger [00:06:00] why you’re even doing this. And once you have that is your foundation you’re really setting the foundation then you can move on to day to which is developing that author brand very specifically figuring out what it is and then presenting it in a really powerful way to your readers so you’re going to look in the mirror and see who you are. You’re going to look at your readers and see who they are you’re going to look through your readers were going to teach you how to do that and then we’re going to look in your readers mirror. If all that sounds confusing it’s really not. It’s a way of looking [00:06:30] at your brand and looking at yourself from all angles so that when you present it’s a brand that resonates deeply with your readers and potential readers.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:06:40] And then finally we’re going to talk about how to build a rabid tribe of fans which Mary has done. Mary has pressed one of the most rabid tribes of anyone I know. She knows a little bit about that and about launching a launch team or starting wants to launching a launch thing.
Mary DeMuth: [00:06:57] Yes so I love to create [00:07:00] community around my books and what I do and so actually have done a pretty good job of that and usually don’t pat myself on the back for things. But that’s one thing I think I do well. I know how to create the kind of tribe that is wildly enthusiastic about your work and who will. There’s a verse in Proverbs s that says let another promote you and not the word of your own mouth. And that’s kind of the basis of this whole idea of tribe building it’s it’s so that other people can take a message out there for [00:07:30] me so that I’m not the only one constantly shouting about it.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:07:34] That’s really good and we’ll talk about the kind of blocking and tackling of launch of starting a launch team but I want to move on to Week 2 which is get set. So we laid the foundation in Week 1 and week to get set. And the first thing I’m talking about here is email. Email is a key part of launching your book. We’re going to talk about how to build your list. And we’re also going to talk about e-mail strategies around your launch and [00:08:00] the pro tip here is that you can get away with a higher than normal sending frequency during your watch so you normally send an email once a month. You don’t just have one e-mails like oh my books come out this month I can only send out one email. False!
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:08:13] Also you can send out multiple e-mails will walk you through exactly when to send the e-mails and what to put in those e-mails as you launch your book and get people excited for it.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:08:22] And that’s important times because we actually are going to do this in the first five days in the Get Ready portion of things [00:08:30] but we’re going to teach you how to write copy that’s effective.
James L Rubart: [00:08:33] You can send out the e-mails at the right time with the right frequency. But if the copy is not strong it’s not going to do you much good. So we’re going to teach you how to do that as well.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:08:41] That’s good. And then another thing we’re talking about in the Get Set week is about developing a media calendar. Mary you do a lot of guest podcast interviews like this one right here. You’re on the radio lot in fact as soon as we get off this recording you’ve got a call with a major publication. You can’t talk about but tell [00:09:00] us bit a little bit about editorial calendar and a media calendar. What is that and what are people going be learning here.
Mary DeMuth: [00:09:05] Well I think just to back up a little bit I think what people don’t realize is that they spend so much time writing a book and they think wow I finished that that took so much time but that launching a book takes just about the same amount of time and so on that one month launch for the next maybe a month and a half or two months you have to have a calendar because otherwise you will go a little [00:09:30] bit crazy you need to know when things are going live when you’re going to be on podcasts so that you can get your social media shares and so having that media calendar is super helpful to you so that you don’t go crazy but also just a little tip there. It’s normal to go crazy so if you’re overwhelmed by it you’re like about 99 percent of all authors.
Mary DeMuth: [00:09:52] It’s a lot of work and that’s why we’re trying to help you we want to give you the blueprint prior to the watch [00:10:00] so that you’re not so overwhelmed when you get into the middle of the middle of it can be a little hairy.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:10:05] And another advantage of the PR calendars that helps you space out your activities so it doesn’t all happen on one day. There is this mistaking thought that the launch is a day. It’s like everything has to happen in one insanely busy day. And the reality is that that’s not going to work. You’ve got people need to be reminded multiple times and you will die if you try to do all of the work in one day.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:10:28] You know you make may go into [00:10:30] a sleep coma. So the calendar helps you space it out and realize oh I don’t have anything for day 14 of my watch I need to find some pics also helps you fill in the gaps but also allows you to schedule for rest so don’t feel like you have to do something every single day during the month before and the month after your book comes out.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:10:49] So the next thing that we’re going to talk about in the Get Set week is the best ways to use Amazon. And so if you’re indie published Amazon your page for your book on [00:11:00] Amazon is the most important page about your book on the internet. Because that’s how most people are going to encounter your book. If you go by people maybe buying your book on other Web sites but most of them are going to buy it on Amazon and that page has to be amazing. And in this session Marium talked to you about the cover and the back cover copy and having clean also bots and how to have lots of reviews which protip This is where your launch team comes in. So you’re launching with a good number of reviews. But having a good page on Amazon is critical. And then we’re also [00:11:30] going talk about Web site as we’re going to have a day and share basically everything I know about websites is going to be synthesized into one day and how to prepare your Web site for launching your book and then Mary and Jim and talking about how to get your content as how to become a guest on blogs and podcasts and Web sites. Mary why is that important.
Mary DeMuth: [00:11:50] Well first of all most people ask poorly and as a podcast host I’ve experienced this many times are people kind of pitch to me and say hey I want to [00:12:00] be on your podcast but they have no idea what the podcast is about or they don’t sit with the mission or vision. And I also get a lot of requests to guest blog. I just saw one today for a handyman I’m like wow that really does not have anything to do with the restorying in life so I’m going to say no. Actually I just deleted it.
Mary DeMuth: [00:12:21] So it’s important that if you’re going to pitch to an entity whether it be a blog or a podcast or radio you need to [00:12:30] know your audience and we can give you some strategies on making it beneficial for both. Because a lot of times the pitches I receive from people will only benefit them and then I feel a little bit used. And I don’t I don’t want you to be one of those people that’s a me-monster that’s constantly wanting to use other people for your book. It’s about what can you offer them.
Mary DeMuth: [00:12:52] And so we’ll give you some strategies for that.
James L Rubart: [00:12:54] And the protip here is people like Mary and even ourselves. We are looking for great content we are looking [00:13:00] for great guests. Absolutely. Because you got to keep this machine going. It’s a hungry beast. But like Mary just said it best benefit both parties not just not just you and we’ll teach you how to do that.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:13:11] Let’s move on to week three. We’re running out of time. Let’s move onto week three. There’s so much you’re not even summarizing everything in week three this is go.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:13:20] So get ready get set go. This is go time we’re going to talk about the actual things you’re going to do about relaunch them on Monday of that week we are going to talk about. Talk about your three best friends [00:13:30] when it comes to lunch and your book which is urgency scarcity and popularity. These are psychological triggers in the minds of your readers that if you play to them well we’ll motivate them to buy your book. If you fail to play to these psychological triggers they will not be motivated to buy your book and you will have a failed lunch like this is psychologically the essence of a good launch is these three things. And you know how to create urgency there are some techniques for doing that. How to create scarcity. There are some techniques [00:14:00] for doing that and then how to create a sense of popularity or what social scientists call social proof. It’s this feeling that all of my friends are doing it. I want to do it.
James L Rubart: [00:14:09] I’ve got to do it. I’ve got to do it too.
James L Rubart: [00:14:11] “The Johny’s jumping off the cliff I got to mom” of.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:14:16] One of the places that you’re going to do that is on GoodReads and we’re dedicating a whole day to good reads Good Reads a super popular with the with super readers the kind of readers who are going to take a risk on a new book or take a risk on a new author. And so if you’re launching [00:14:30] a book especially if you’re early in your career. Good Reads is really important and if you’re later on in your career. Good Reads is still important because your readers have already followed you are on good reads you and to make sure that they know about your book. During the launch week because a good successful launch will help you rank on the bestseller list which will help new people discover your book and then we’re going to talk about launch day Jim.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:14:53] Mary is that a big deal the day of your life.
Mary DeMuth: [00:14:57] It is. I have one coming up. Actually [00:15:00] I’m launching the seven deadly friendships on October 1st so I’ve been working working working on that.
Mary DeMuth: [00:15:05] And yeah it’s the big day. It’s the day that you want to see Amazon sales happen. It’s a time to celebrate. You might want to host a launch party we’ll talk a little bit about that maybe one online and. Yeah. It’s a time to celebrate. It’s also the beginning of a very long tiring month better. It’s awesome.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:15:25] It’s the beginning of the marathon and everyone is clapping and cheering. Yes! Nothing hurts. No [00:15:30] I’m sorry. No your shoes are in perfect condition.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:15:35] It’s a great day. We’ll talk all about that. And then finally we’re going to talk about nailing media interviews. If we are doing a good job soliciting blogs if you got it your editorial calendar working knowing how to do a good media interview is really important. And Jim is going to talk. I think this is Jim and Mary’s are y’all are doing this one.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:15:56] But this is it’s fun but it requires [00:16:00] a lot of practice. So it’s important to start practicing before your book launches.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:16:06] And we’ll talk about how to do that. How to set up practices and what are some other tips. Just real quick for people who aren’t committed to go through the course. How do you nail a media interview. And one or two sentences what’s the highlights.
James L Rubart: [00:16:18] Well real quick. THOMAS She already said a practice practice practice. By that I mean set up a video camera tape yourself doing an interview frame to critique partner that you can actually critique each other on the interview. This was good [00:16:30] this was bad. You do not want to go into that cold.
James L Rubart: [00:16:32] And the other thing is here’s a protip make you realize you are not the star of the show the person interviewing you is the star of the show. The second star of the show is the person listening not you.
Mary DeMuth: [00:16:44] That’s true. Is so important that it’s about serving others. And really if you believe in your book your book is about serving others even if it’s a novel it’s about serving others you’re giving them a story and that’s important. So yes you’re about. It’s [00:17:00] not about you. It’s about them. But if you’re all keyed up and freaked out and scared and shaking that’s not going to go well for you. Yes. So practice practice practice. I recently was on CNN and that was super scary but I was in a room by myself with a camera pointed at me with the Dallas skyline behind me and I got the questions in my ear and I’m so grateful that I thought that through and I practiced prior.
James L Rubart: [00:17:21] And this is somebody Mary who has done hundreds of interviews and yet she is still practicing for the CNN. So it’s like any skill you do not stop practicing [00:17:30] your writing well you don’t start stop practicing radio and TV interviews either.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:17:35] All right. So if you want to go through this course with us if you want to be a part of the small group that will walk through this course day by day and we’ll be giving you feedback you’ll be asking questions if I’m having a blueprint. Seems interesting to you. We would love for you to go through this course a link to go through it in the show notes. Now we want to keep this focused for people who are serious so in publishing world there are people who just want to learn and people who just want to [00:18:00] do. And so to keep it focused that this is a really valuable group we’re pricing this. We thought about pricing at 500 dollars but we didn’t. We fought and fought and probably got it down to $299. And to go through this three week course and if you’re not satisfied with the blueprint that you have at the end of the week we will refund her money or at the end of the three weeks we’ll refund your money.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:18:23] Now you may be asking but I’m a patron. Do I get a discount if I’m an avid marketing patron.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:18:28] And the answer is absolutely you get a discount. [00:18:30] Who do you think you are?
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:18:32] It’s only 249 for novel marketing patrons. If you’re already pitching the shows a way of saying thank you for your two dollars a month three or five dollars a month. You get to save 50 dollars on the cost of the course but it is limited enrollment. So if you have not signed up by the end of August that’s it. We’re closing enrollment and that’s it. You know you all have missed your chance so if you want to develop a blueprint even if your books aren’t coming out right away don’t feel like you have to launch your book in the three weeks. You won’t be ready to frankly. [00:19:00] You’re going to have a blueprint that you can then build your launch with. So if you’ve got a book coming out later this year or next year I think this course will be very very helpful for you.
Mary DeMuth: [00:19:10] And we’ve got some freebies in there as well. Not only do you get this course but there’s several things one of them is my launch your book checklist which kind of takes you through so easily how to launch your book so that you have some practical things that we’re giving to you as well.
James L Rubart: [00:19:25] Plus we did we did we did some fun recordings. Each of us found one person we thought [00:19:30] hey this would be really helpful for example I interviewed Ellen Arnold who was the senior vice president Thomas Nelson and oversaw the launch of more than 500 books so I thought OK I’m going to talk to Alan about what it what it takes to do a great book launch so you’ll get that interview as a bonus and you get interviews from Thomas and Mary as bonuses as well.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:19:47] I forget the freebies I’m throwing in a free version of my book table pro my book progress pro and I think several of the other applicants. Gosh darn it don’t remember and I’m only [00:20:00] getting one as an answer. Ok my events. So this is nearly a hundred dollars worth of my plugins.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:20:06] If you’ve heard us mention a plug in into my book table you’ve been thinking about buying it. Well you’ll get it for free by joining this course. So anything that we recommend that we’ve made or that I’ve made I’ll be giving out away for free in the course of recomending that you use My Book Table to help create a book page to help you launch the book which I will be doing on the Web sites talk.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:20:27] I will be giving you My Book Table Pro which comes to the special [00:20:30] landing page modes specifically for book launches is included in the price of the course.
Mary DeMuth: [00:20:35] But wait there’s more.
James L Rubart: [00:20:37] The knives Mary talk about the knives.
Mary DeMuth: [00:20:40] Like Jim said I will be interviewing on Anna LeBaron who has an amazing story of how to launch a book and it’s I don’t want to give her story away but she is the guru on this. So that’s an extra special interview that you’re going to want to listen to.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:20:56] And finally you’re going to have access to all of this training material [00:21:00] perpetually into the future.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:21:02] You’ll end the Facebook group will continue to exist so no one new will be added to this group. This is going to be the 2018. Once your book blueprint Facebook are the only way into the group is with the course and you’re going to have a cohort of students that you’re going to learn from and hopefully help each other promote each other’s books so maybe you can join each others launch teams. You’re on a team of fellow authors who are all pulling in the same direction. A three strand cord is not easily broken and having [00:21:30] people who are going through the process with you is unbelievably helpful and I will say in October I’m launching a baby or rather my wife is launching a baby.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:21:39] She is a part of a Facebook group of other women who are also due in October and just having a group of other women who are going through the same process at the same time. Oh my goodness I’m having this change but it’s like we just hit 30 and a lot of the women are starting to have morning sickness again which we had no idea is a thing. And so when my wife is having morning sickness [00:22:00] she’s like oh this is normal. It’s a thing. It’s come back in the third trimester. Nobody told us when we signed up for the baby. But it’s over.
James L Rubart: [00:22:08] You signed up for having the baby.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:22:10] But the fact that she’s with other people going through this difficult process is really helpful. And you may be like oh how dare you compare giving birth to a baby and launching a book.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:22:19] But I don’t know Mary you’ve done both are they kind of the same thing. Do you like your birthing a part of the world.
Mary DeMuth: [00:22:26] It’s true. And transition and all the fun things pushing straight. [00:22:30] So I went to a birthing class last night with my wife that was put on by the hospital.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:22:36] And I learned more things about things I never thought I was going to learn.
Thomas Umstattd Jr.: [00:22:40] And so so think of this course is like the birthing class forged for launching her book and we really do want to see her succeed and we want to see you thrive and we want you to be with a group of other people who are wanting the same thing for you. So we really do hope that you check it out we’ll have links in the show notes. It does close the end of August [00:23:00] 2018 and we really do hope this is helpful for you.
James L Rubart: [00:23:03] This has been the novel marketing podcast with James L. Rubart. Thomas Umstattd Jr. and the amazing Mary DeMuth giving you novel ideas on how to promote yourself and your writing off line online and everywhere in between. Thank you so much for listening.